陌上云暮迟迟归妈妈网:与安吉丽娜?朱莉共进午餐

与安吉丽娜?朱莉共进午餐
Lunch with the FT: Angelina Jolie
作者：英国《金融时报》马修?加拉汉
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As she wraps up her debut film as a director, the Hollywood actress tells Matthew Garrahan why she doesn’t love acting as much as she used to - and why she still likes to 'get a little wild’
看着安吉丽娜?朱莉大步流星地穿过餐厅的样子，就可以教会大家如何在公共场合不引人注目。她面无表情地目视前方，腰板挺得很直，走路速度无出其右，其他用餐者可能觉得只是瞟见了这位天皇巨星，但来不及再多瞧上一眼。
Watching Angelina Jolie stride through a restaurant is to be given a lesson in how to avoid attracting attention in public. She looks ahead impassively, her back is straight and she walks at speed so that she will have moved on before any diners, who think they might just have spotted the world’s biggest female movie star, have time to do a double take.
朱莉与Grill餐厅（位于好莱坞环球影城(Universal Studios)旁）其他用餐者明显不一样，所以她一来我就知道了，虽说我坐在餐厅后边，但她一走进来，我立马就认出了她。她浑身上下一身黑色行头——黑裙、黑裤与黑鞋——一头棕色披肩长发，一只手拿着LV (Louis Vuitton)包。一溜烟功夫她就来到了我跟前，我茫然不知所措，慌忙从座位上起身作自我介绍。“嗨，”她朝我打招呼，并伸出手来与我握手，笑得那么灿烂，差点儿没把我弄晕菜。
Unlike the other diners in The Grill on the Universal Studios lot in Hollywood, I know she is coming, so although I am seated at the back of the restaurant I notice her as soon as she enters. She is dressed entirely in black – black shirt, black trousers, black shoes – her long brown hair falling over her shoulders, a Louis Vuitton bag clutched at her side. Suddenly she is standing next to me and I am scrambling awkwardly out of my seat to introduce myself. “Hi,” she says, putting out her hand for me to shake, her face lighting up into a broad smile that almost knocks me off my feet. “I’m Angie.”
我俩面对面在小包间坐定后，服务员过来问她喝点啥。我早到了10分钟，所以嘛，已经捷足先登，品了一半的阿诺德?帕尔默（Arnold Palmer，一种加柠檬的冰茶）了——这是加州午餐的主食。她要了薄荷茶，并对我莞尔一笑。
We squeeze into a booth facing each other and a waiter asks if she’d like something to drink. I arrived 10 minutes earlier and am already halfway through an Arnold Palmer – iced tea mixed with lemonade – a staple of California lunches. She orders a mint tea, flashing another smile.
她解释选择这个地方会谈的原因是租用了摄影棚的一间办公室，对自己执导的首部影片进行最后加工润色。她首次自编自导了影片《血与蜜之地》(In the Land of Blood and Honey)，故事的背景是波斯尼亚(Bosnia)战争。这是一部小制作影片，所用的演员也都是些无名之辈，今天是电影后期制作的最后一天。“今天是个不寻常日子，”她说着，同时翻看着菜单。“我们的后期制作已接近尾声，今天下午4点会宣布影片彻底完工。封存后，就不再作任何改动了。”
She explains that she chose the location because she is using an office at the studio to put the finishing touches to her directorial debut, In the Land of Blood and Honey, a love story she also wrote, which is set in the Bosnian war. It’s a low budget affair with a little-known cast and today is her final day of post-production. “This is the crazy day,” she says, looking at the menu. “We’re down to the wire. Today at 4 o’clock we make the call and it’s all over. We’re locked and there’s no changing it.”
花了一点儿时间，总算定下来午餐吃啥。除了拍摄电影外，今年36岁的朱莉有6个孩子，作为联合国难民事务高级专员署(UN High Commission for Refugees)的亲善大使，她还有诸多人道主义事务。作为联合国亲善大使，过去几年她的足迹遍布塞拉利昂、巴基斯坦与厄瓜多尔(Sierra Leone, Pakistan and Ecuador)这些国家的难民营。
Lunch has taken a while to pin down. In addition to making films, Jolie, 36, has six children and a raft of humanitarian commitments with the United Nations as an ambassador with its High Commission for Refugees. Over the years her UN role has involved visits to camps in countries such as Sierra Leone, Pakistan and Ecuador.
她没有专门的公关人员，因此我俩这次会面是通过一位名叫大卫的神秘法国人，经过几周的电子邮件与电话的沟通联系才最终敲定。“我既要告诉你好消息，也要告诉你坏消息，”有一天大卫对我说。“好消息是朱莉明确答应了你的访谈请求。坏消息是你得赶到马耳他(Malta)去见她。”她的伴侣、影星布拉德?皮特(Brad Pitt)一直在欧洲拍片，她与孩子们要赶往那儿与他会合。
She doesn’t have a publicist so our meeting was arranged after several weeks of e-mail and telephone correspondence with a mysterious Frenchman called David. “I’ve got good news and bad news,” he said one day. “The good news is she definitely wants to do it. The bad news is you have to go to Malta.” Her partner, actor Brad Pitt, had been filming in Europe and she and the children were there with him.
我们最终商定还是等她回到洛杉矶后再作访谈，这就是我俩缘何现在就坐环球公司 (Universal)旁餐馆的原因，这儿也是名导演史蒂文?斯皮尔伯格(Steven Spielberg)工作室、多家摄影棚以及众多电视节目场景的大本营。在Grill餐厅的墙上，挂着环球公司发行的《群鸟》(The Birds)与《黑湖巨怪》(The Creature from the Black Lagoon)等经典影片的镶框照片。坐在Grill等朱莉时，我已经熟悉了一下餐厅环境，如今她已到场，我也就无暇再左顾右盼了。面对面看朱莉，她的美美不胜收，她笑的时候，晶莹透亮的大眼睛闪着顽皮的神情，那对人所皆知的嘴唇中，露出让人神魂颠倒的亮白牙齿。她很少接受访谈，所以刚开始对我存有戒备之心——尤其是当我提问她不愿答复的话题。比方说，她不想透露太多自己执导的首部影片，因为她不想抢了首映式前媒体发布会的风头。但她回避此类问题时，脸上露出狡黠的笑容，并耸耸肩膀表示抱歉，似乎想说，“对不起，这就是游戏的组成部分”。
We decided it would be better to wait until she had returned to Los Angeles, which is why we are now in a restaurant at Universal, home to Steven Spielberg’s production offices, several soundstages and the sets of numerous television shows. Inside The Grill, framed prints of classic Universal releases such as The Birds and The Creature from the Black Lagoon hang on the walls. I had taken in the surroundings while waiting for Jolie to arrive but now she is here it is difficult to look at anything else. In person, her beauty is amplified; her eyes sparkle mischievously when she laughs, her celebrated lips frame a set of blinding white teeth. She rarely does interviews and is guarded at first – particularly when I broach subjects that she is reluctant to discuss. For instance, she doesn’t want to tell me too much about her new film because she doesn’t want to pre-empt the press campaign which is being lined up ahead of its release. But as she deflects these questions, there is a knowing smile and a shrug that is almost apologetic, as if to say, “Sorry, it’s all part of the game”.
服务员端来茶后，朱莉给自己倒的茶加了点蜂蜜，我俩再次拿起菜单看。“这家餐厅有时有意大利面，”服务员问我俩是否准备点菜时，她说道。“我要份带鸡肉的意大利面。”我则要了加祖传番茄(heirloom tomatoes)的烤鲑鱼。
The waiter has returned with her tea, and when it is poured Jolie adds some honey to her cup. We look at the menus again. “There’s a pasta in here somewhere,” she says when the waiter asks if we’re ready to order. “I’ll have that with chicken.” I choose grilled salmon with heirloom tomatoes.
朱莉说这次出游，她带上了闺女们。她解释说自己与皮特不管去哪儿旅游都会把孩子们带上，全家从不在一个地方逗留太久。“我们轮流拍戏，这样就可以保证有一个人在家陪孩子。”可是，我俩这次会谈时，他俩人天各一方。“这很难做到——我已经在洛杉矶呆了一周，彼此分离这么长时间，这种情况很少见。我带上闺女出游，所以呢，我们组织的是一次特别的女士游。男孩子们则跟着布拉德……他正在拍摄一部僵尸影片（《僵尸世界大战》(World War Z)）。”
She tells me she has brought her daughters with her for this trip. She explains that she and Pitt tend to travel everywhere with them and the family is never in the same place for long. “We take turns working so one of us can be home with the kids.” They are apart when we meet, though. “It’s been hard – I’ve been [in Los Angeles] for a week and it’s very unusual to separate for this long. I brought the girls so we’re having a special girl trip. All the boys are hanging out with Brad ... he’s filming a zombie movie [World War Z].”
朱莉与皮特的家恰似国际联盟(League of Nations)的缩影版。年纪最大的儿子马多克斯(Maddox)快10岁了，2002年从柬埔寨(Cambodia)收养；扎哈拉(Zahara )6岁，出生在埃塞俄比亚(Ethiopia)；希洛(Shiloh)是这对伴侣生的第一个孩子，5年前出生于纳米比亚(Namibia)；帕克斯 (Pax)于4年前收养，出生在越南；三年前，朱莉在法国又产下了一对龙凤胎——诺克斯(Knox)与维维安(Vivienne)。“他们都很自豪自己母国的文化，同时又相互学习，”她说。“所以并不会出现男孩光学亚洲人的行事方式。每个孩子的床头都挂有各自母国的国旗，都有自己值得夸耀的地方。我们还没去越南，因为帕克斯有自己的计划。扎哈拉想回非洲老家看看，希洛也一样。所以每个孩子都能轮流做回东道主。”
The Jolie Pitt family is a miniature League of Nations. Their eldest son Maddox, who is almost 10, was adopted in 2002 from his native Cambodia. Zahara, aged six, was born in Ethiopia, while Shiloh, the couple’s first biological child, was born five years ago in Namibia. Pax, whom they adopted four years ago, was born in Vietnam and three years ago, Jolie gave birth in France to twins Knox and Vivienne. “They are all learning about each other’s cultures as well as being proud of their own,” she says. “So it’s not like just the boys get to do the Asian thing. They all have their flags over their beds and their individual pride. We owe Vietnam a visit, because Pax is due. Z wants to get back to Africa, and Shiloh too. So everyone takes their turns in their country.”
朱莉今年去了柬埔寨，是为LV拍摄一部广告片，它由安妮?莱波维兹(Annie Leibovitz)执导。象LV这种奢侈时尚公司到柬埔寨这样的穷国去拍广告片，似乎显得不伦不类，但拍不拍最终由朱莉自己定夺。“到柬埔寨实地去拍广告片，并着力宣传它的美景，这种事我乐意为之，因为这个地方太值得一游，”她说。她与皮特在当地确实有幢别墅——“是幢面积不大的高脚屋”。她拍摄广告的所得会悉数捐给该国慈善项目，她告诉我，依靠以马多克斯名义建立的家庭基金会来开展相应的工作。“基金会致力于阻止滥伐山上森林、反盗猎以及清除地雷。我们都是以马多克斯的名义做这些事，希望他长大成人后，届时能接手。”
She has been to Cambodia this year, to shoot an advertising campaign for Louis Vuitton with Annie Leibovitz. An impoverished country might seem like an odd place for a luxury fashion house to shoot an ad campaign but the final decision was made by Jolie herself. “To actually do it there, to highlight the beauty of the country, was something I was very happy to do because it is a place people should travel to,” she says. Indeed, she and Pitt have a house there – “it’s a little place on stilts”. Her fee from the campaign will go towards charitable projects in the country, she says, building on work she began with a foundation the family established in Maddox’s name. “It’s focused on protecting mountains from deforestation, poaching and clearing landmines. We put it together for Mad so when he’s older he’ll hopefully take it over.”
我们点的菜端了过来，朱莉的意大利面很简单，里面有几块拌西红柿酱的鸡肉。但我点的烤鲑鱼做工较为考究，做成了宝塔状，还带有华丽装饰的小茴香、祖传番茄以及我叫不出名字来的蔬菜丁。整道菜看上去有点滑稽，朱莉看后，也忍不住大笑起来。
Our food has arrived. Jolie’s pasta is simple, with pieces of chicken in a tomato sauce. But my salmon is a part of an elaborate creation, built into a tower, with an ornate garnish of fennel, heirloom tomatoes and some other diced vegetables that I fail to identify. It looks ridiculous and when she sees my plate she bursts out laughing.
鉴于他们全球转的地方很多，我不禁问她：家的内涵是什么。“身在何处，何处都是我们的家。”那这样是否感觉空落落的？“没错，但内心很愉快。我不习惯老是呆在一个地方，也不喜欢一天到晚坐在那儿。当初在学校，我可是个难以管教的学生。但这个世界上有很多地方值得我去寻幽探访……所以我特喜欢旅游，觉得四处旅游是培养孩子的最佳方式。”
Given how much they travel I wonder where they consider home. “Home is wherever we are.” Does she feel rootless? “Yes, but happily. I’m very bad at staying in one place. I’m also bad at sitting still. I was a terrible student at school. But there’s so much to explore in the world ... so I love travel. If you can travel I think it’s the best way to raise kids.”
听到她提及自己的少女时期，不由得让我想起她自出演中学生网络惊悚片《骇客》 (Hackers)一举成名以来，这15年里她所发生的巨变。想当初，她就象典型的好莱坞式放荡不羁的孩子。她是名演员乔恩?沃伊特(Jon Voight)与玛奇琳?伯特兰德(Marcheline Bertrand)的女儿，自己说少女时期曾经自我堕落，30岁不到就已经有两次婚姻——先是嫁给《骇客》中的搭档、英国演员约翰?李?米勒(Jonny Lee Miller)，第二次是嫁给了美国演员兼歌手比利?鲍勃?桑顿(Billy Bob Thornton)。她对刀情有独钟，身上刻了好几处刺青，胸前戴着一个小盒，里面盛着比利的血。
This reference to her youth reminds me how much she has changed over the past 15 years since she came to prominence with her role in the high school cyber thriller Hackers. Back then she seemed an archetypal Hollywood wild child. The daughter of actors Jon Voight and Marcheline Bertrand, she talked of self-harming in her teens and by her late twenties she had been married twice – first to Hackers co-star, English actor Jonny Lee Miller, and then to the American actor and singer Billy Bob Thornton. She had an interest in knives, acquired several tattoos – including one of Thornton’s name on her arm (it has since been removed) and wore a locket containing his blood.
各种争议伴始终随着她的成名之路。2000年，凭借在《移魂女郎》(Girl, Interrupted)饰演一位精神病病人的出色演技而荣获奥斯卡最佳女配角奖，随后凭借在《古墓丽影》(Tomb Raider)中饰演劳拉?克劳芙特(Lara Croft)以及在《史密斯夫妇》(Mr and Mrs Smith)等影片中的角色成为一流的功夫影星。正是在出演《史密斯夫妇》时，朱莉初次邂逅皮特，随后这对伴侣逐渐成为好莱坞的金童玉女，他们也随之声名日隆，拿他们的好友马特?戴蒙(Matt Damon)的说法，达到了“恰似囚犯”的程度。媒体的穷追猛打毫无偃旗息鼓的迹象。去年，《世界新闻报》(News of the World)登载了一则假消息，声称他俩正在闹分手，他们一纸诉状把对方告上了法庭；我问朱莉：对《世界新闻报》最近遭停刊是否感到哀伤。“我的确听到了相关报道……可见我从不读该报。所以嘛，实在难以知晓所谓的损失到底有多大。”
The controversies accompanied a rising career. In 2000 she won an Oscar for her startling performance as a patient in a mental hospital in Girl, Interrupted and soon became a fully fledged action star with the role of Lara Croft in Tomb Raider (2001) and in films such as Mr and Mrs Smith (2005). It was on that set that she first met Pitt and the pair have since become Hollywood’s premier power couple, their fame magnified to the extent that they are, according to their friend, actor Matt Damon, “like prisoners”. The media scrutiny shows no sign of letting up. Last year the couple sued the News of the World when it printed a false story alleging that they were breaking up; I ask if she shed any tears at the newspaper’s recent closure. “I did hear something about that ... clearly I never read it. So it’s hard to know how much of a loss it is.”
成年后，她生活中的一举一动始终在公众的关注视野内。但这次吃饭前，我从媒体了解到的朱莉与坐我对面这个坦然自若的朱莉俨然判若两人。她说，为人母改变了一切，尤其是她对演员生涯的看法。“对于能成为一名演员，我始终抱着一颗感恩的心……但我觉得年轻时，我想不断地拍戏。我想方设法想弄清楚生活中的各种疑问，所以呢，你发现自己出演的角色能帮助解答这些问题，并帮助自己成长。”
She has spent most of her adult life in the public eye. But the person I have read about before our lunch couldn’t seem more different from the poised woman opposite me. Motherhood has changed her, she says, particularly with respect to her career. “I’ve never not been grateful to be an actor ... but I think when I was younger I needed [acting] more. I was trying to question things in life so you find these characters that help you find things and grow.”
她解释说，在过去几年里，自己与演职生涯的关系已经发生了变化。“从某种意义上说，这就好比是治病，”她说，并叉起长通粉与鸡肉往嘴里送。“有些角色让人欲罢不能，因为他们探究生活、爱情及自由中的种种问题。伴随着你的成长，你总是拷问自己这些问题：我坚强吗？我神智正常吗？我理解爱情、了解自己吗？”现如今，她补充说，“我已长大成人，对自己有了清晰的了解……作为女人、成年人、以及站在家庭的角度，我如今并不太在乎角色能否帮助我解答这些问题，而是关心自己是否能解答这些问题。”我俩又谈到了去年推出的影片《特工绍特》(Salt)，安吉在其中担任女主角，她过关斩将，出生入死于中情局(CIA)、特工处(Secret Service)以及一小撮凶恶的俄国间谍之间。剧中主角原先是为男性所备，但在安吉表示愿意出演后，剧情随之就被改编。“那时我刚生完双胞胎，”她回忆道。“我已经穿了很长一段时间的睡衣了。当时穿着睡衣坐在医院里，我边给孩子喂奶，边读剧本，慈母温情涌上心头……我快速翻看着剧本，都是些打斗与枪战的场面。我当时就觉得，'这正是我需要的，我想脱掉睡衣，好好拿枪过把瘾。’我敢肯定，许多刚生完孩子的女人都认为'稍微活动一下身子骨、疯狂上一把……重温一下原先生活的另一面是件美事。’”
She explains that her relationship with acting has changed over the years. “It’s like being in therapy, in a way,” she says, taking a forkful of penne and chicken. “You’re drawn to certain roles because they question something about life, or about love, or about freedom. You ask these questions as you grow up: am I strong enough, am I sane enough? Do I understand love, do I understand myself?” Now, she adds, “I’m older and I know who I am ... and I’m less interested in the character helping me answer something ... than in being able to answer it for myself, as a woman, as an adult, with my family.” We talk about Salt, an action film released last year in which Jolie punches, shoots and kicks her way through the CIA, Secret Service and a cabal of rogue Russian spies. The title role was initially written for a man but the script was modified when it became clear she was interested. “I’d just had the twins,” she recalls. “I’d been in a nightgown for a very, very long time. And I was sitting in the hospital breastfeeding and reading this script in my nightgown, feeling so soft and mama ... and I was flipping these pages and it was all fighting and shooting guns. I thought, 'That’s what I need. I need to get out of my nightgown and I need a gun.’ I’m sure many a woman who has been through childbirth has thought 'It would be nice to get a little physical, get a little wild ... to remember what that other side is like.’”
她说自己要很久以后才会考虑息影。“但已经不象过去那样爱拍戏。我如今喜欢的是为人母。”但很明显，她对执导影片兴趣正浓。“相比拍电影，我更喜欢当导演，”她说。我问她是否利用了之前与导演共事的经历。“我觉得从所有导演（甚至那些我不喜欢的）身上学到了不少东西。”我绞尽脑汁想让她损一番那些不喜欢的导演，但她礼貌地回绝了。她对迈克尔?温特伯顿(Michael Winterbottom)赞不绝口，他执导的影片《坚强的心》（A Mighty Heart，自己在其中出演了角色）讲的是记者丹尼?波尔(Daniel Pearl)的故事，波尔在巴基斯坦遭绑架，随后又惨遭塔利班杀害。“克林特?伊斯特伍德(Clint Eastwood)也让我受益匪浅，本人在他执导的影片《换子疑云》 (Changeling)出演角色，他教会我如何发掘演职人员的优点，放手让每个人去工作。我从未与大卫?芬奇（David Fincher，执导了影片《搏击俱乐部》(Fight Club)与《社交网络》(The Social Network)）合作过，但我把他当好朋友，看到他对待工作一丝不苟，对细节精益求精，是个工作狂——即便演员已经累趴下了——直至演满意为止。”
She says she is not thinking of quitting acting any time soon. “But I don’t love it as much [as I did]. I love being a mom.” She is, however, clearly excited about being behind the camera for the first time. “I prefer it to acting,” she says. I ask if she drew on her experiences with the directors she has worked with. “I think I’ve learnt something from all of them – even the ones I didn’t like.” I try to get her to dish the dirt on the latter but she politely declines. She is full of praise for Michael Winterbottom, who directed her in A Mighty Heart (2007), the story of Daniel Pearl, the journalist who was abducted and killed in Pakistan. “I also learned a lot from Clint Eastwood [her director in 2008’s Changeling] about how to appreciate the members of the crew, empowering them to do their job. I never worked with David Fincher [director of Fight Club and The Social Network] but I know him as a friend and have seen how meticulous he is, his attention to detail, how hard he works – even when you’re too tired to go back into the room – to make sure that you’ve got it right.”
芬奇有望执导朱莉出演的下部影片《埃及艳后》(Cleopatra)，但朱莉暗示将来影迷看到她出镜的概率会越来越少。“随着我与布拉德的年岁增长，我们打算少拍戏。这一行我已经干太长时间了，布拉德也是如此……我俩也算功成名就，不想一辈子干这一行，还有很多事等着我们去做。”
Fincher is in the frame to direct her in the forthcoming Cleopatra, but Jolie hints that we may see less of her on screen in future. “As Brad and I get older we’re going to do fewer films. I’ve been working for a long time, he’s been working for a long time ... we’ve had a nice run and don’t want to be doing this our whole lives. There are a lot of other things to do.”
中国仍是她日程表上期望的探秘之地，她也希望能去缅甸(Burma)看看，“但目前的形势不允许”，原因是该国仍处于军政府的专制统治下。“还有伊朗，我很想去伊朗看看。”但她的梦想是“穿越撒哈拉沙漠，整个行程共需28天……必须得骑骆驼，我希望能一段一段分开走，这样一路上就可以让孩子们歇歇脚，”她若有所思地说。
China is on her list of places still to explore, and she would love to see Burma, “but not in the wrong circumstances”, given that the country is under the control of an oppressive military junta. “And Iran. I’d love to go Iran.” Her dream, however, is to “cross the Sahara. It takes 28 days ...it would have to be on a camel. I wonder if I could do it in pieces and station the kids along the way,” she muses.
我对她说，对于她们这个居无定所的家庭，这样的计划再理想不过了，随后我俩站起身道别。虽然她凑过来亲了亲我的双颊，但这一次我们没再握手，随后她快步走出餐厅（已经走得半空），走到阳光沐浴下的加州大街上，赶回工作地。
I tell her it sounds ideal for their nomadic family and we stand to say goodbye. There’s no handshake this time, although she leans forward to kiss me on each cheek. Then she walks away through the now half-empty restaurant, out into the California sunshine, back to work.
马修?加拉汉是FT洛杉矶站记者
Matthew Garrahan is the FT’s Los Angeles correspondent
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Grill餐厅地址：加州影视城蓝克新大道(Lankershim Blvd)3900号环球影城，邮编：91604。
The Grill
阿诺德?帕尔默：2.50美元
Universal Studios, 3900 Lankershim Blvd, Studio City, California 91604
热薄荷茶：2.50美元
Arnold Palmer $2.50
鸡肉意大利面：19.00美元
Hot mint tea $2.50
烤鲑鱼：23.00美元
Pasta with chicken $19.00
总计（包括小费）：61.11美元
Grilled salmon $23.00
译者：常和