门面网门面出租转让:中国40架歼10B急赴巴基斯坦：美国佬惊慌失措

中国40架歼10B急赴巴基斯坦：美国佬惊慌失措

双机起飞

　　据美国defense-update网站7月31日报道，中国正在为巴基斯坦提供一个j－10b多用途全天候战机中队。据称，此事是在巴基斯坦陆军部参谋长瓦伊德·阿萨德赴北约进行为期一周的访问时敲定的。如果交易发生，巴基斯坦将成为继中国后首个列装j－10b战机的国家。

　　报道称，中巴两国已就相关j－10战机相关交易进行了多年的谈判，巴基斯坦希望进口至少两个该款战机中队。巴基斯坦空军每个空军中队大约有20架作战飞机，两个中队40架的歼10b对于巴基斯坦来说其重要性不言而喻，据信，此次交易中提及的b型战机性能堪比f－16 block 50/52战机。

　　2011年8月1日消息：自2009年现身后一直受到军迷界普遍猜测的歼-10改进型战机在成飞亮相。

中国自行研制的“歼-10”战斗机（韩联社）

　　目前，中巴两国也已开始生产由中国设计的jf－17战机。目前巴基斯坦正在其境内建造jf－17战机，并积极向海外市场推销这款战机。

　　最新型j-10b战机于2009年首飞。其与j－10战机的显着区别在于加装了可降低战机雷达信号的新型天线罩。除天线罩之外，重新设计的进气口除提高了气体流量之外，也提高了战机的隐身性能。j-10b战机垂直尾翼、舱内挂架都加装了航空电子设备，其中可能包括各种传感器与电子对抗设施。该型战机还加装了一个新型光电传感器，很可能是前视红外搜索和跟踪系统。据信，与j－10a型相比，b型战机可加装更加强大的发动机和雷达系统。

　　评论：因为本拉登和美国撕破脸之后，美国又对巴铁冻结了美元援助，两国关系一度紧张，这让巴铁明显有了不安全感，巴总理吉拉尼访华是为了寻求政治上的帮助，但显然中国的声援是不够的，军事援助才是作为一个盟友应尽的义务，所以才有了先前的50架枭龙，而现在又有了这40架歼10b，我想最头疼应该不是美国，美国只是不敢再轻侮巴铁，真正要头疼的应该是阿三。

新涂装歼-10表演机

　　中国正在为巴基斯坦提供一个j－10b多用途全天候战机中队。据称，此事是在巴基斯坦陆军部参谋长瓦伊德·阿萨德赴北约进行为期一周的访问时敲定的。如果交易发生，巴基斯坦将成为继中国后首个列装j－10b战机的国家。

　　评论翻译:

　　a评论：（每个评论下面都有许多回复，就直接列在每个评论的下面，每个评论前面我都会表个字母）。

　　作战子系统日益齐全

　　2011年8月1日消息：自2009年现身后一直受到军迷界普遍猜测的歼-10改进型战机在成飞亮相。

　　2011年8月1日消息：自2009年现身后一直受到军迷界普遍猜测的歼-10改进型战机在成飞亮相。

　　[–]boomer56 104 points 13 hours ago*

　　also, an attack on pakistan is an attack on china.

中国歼10战机性能优异。

　　我越想，这个政策。。。。中国担保巴基斯坦的安全？印度今天会想什么？

　　isentrope 18 points 9 hours ago

　　it's not really much of a policy change and india has known this for a long while. pakistan and china have very strong relations with one another and china has openly sent material and weapons to pakistan to aid in fighting india.

　　这个政策并不会改变多少，印度明白这个很久了。中国和巴基斯坦彼此有很牢固的关系，中国公开送原材料和武器给巴基斯坦用来对抗印度。

　　[–]ashray 12 points 7 hours ago

　　including nukes. this was alleged for a long time but recently confirmed based on some de-classification. the wikipedia article on it has this info:

　　2009年04月，j-10b出厂了。从机首到机腹有非常显着的改变下，一体成形、浑然天成，让世人佩服成飞的智慧与设计水平。歼10b颠覆性进展令俄罗斯苏霍伊的专家都感到震惊，认为歼10b基本上和歼10a不是一款机器。

　　2011年8月1日消息：自2009年现身后一直受到军迷界普遍猜测的歼-10改进型战机在成飞亮相。

　　[–]princeton_cuppa 4 points 3 hours ago

　　exactly, pak nukes = made in china pak exists because of hatred of india which china feeds since it hates india/us/japan - practically anything which can potentially kicks china's butt.

　　正确，巴基斯坦的核武器=中国制造。巴基斯坦的存在是因为中国培养的对印度的仇恨，自从中国讨厌印度/美国/日本-实际上无论什么事都可能用来踢中国的屁股。

　　isentrope 1 point 19 seconds ago

　　china's hatred for india stems from when they had a hardline prime minister in the late '50s early '60s (nehru i think? not sure about that). prior to this the two countries actually had extremely good relations, but the political shift occurred after tibet was occupied by the pla; prior to that, one of the intentions of having tibet be independent in the first place was to act as a buffer between china and india the same way nepal and bhutan function.

　　中国对印度的憎恨源于当时的印度有一个强硬派总理，在50年代后期和60年代的初期（我猜是尼赫鲁？但是不确认）。在这之前这两个国家有非常好的关系，但是政策突然发生变化在西藏被人民解放军占领以后；在此之前，印度支持让西藏独立的目的之一起初是让西藏像尼泊尔和不丹一样作为两国之间的缓冲区。

　　中国对日本的憎恨纯粹就是不需要解释的，中国对美国的憎恨是由于希望模仿美国的成功当美国在最近几年开始逐渐没落的时候。

　　b.评论：

　　petewilko 38 points 11 hours ago

　　nothing new, india and china continue to have issues with each other. anytime you hear of some military airplanes india acquires, usually you'll find its range is able of a round trip to beijing.

　　没有新意，印度和中国互相总是有矛盾。你听到的所有关于印度获得的一些关于战斗机的消息，我们会发现这些战斗机的航程能够到北京飞一个来回。

　　[–]itcouldbe 34 points 10 hours ago

　　the prc seems to have issues with all its neighbors.

　　中国似乎与他所有的邻居都有矛盾。

　　[–]gsfgf 14 points 4 hours ago

　　it's between russia and india. anyone would have neighbor issues.

　　这是俄罗斯与印度之间的问题，大家与邻居都有矛盾。

　　[–]tornado54 3 points 2 hours ago

　　really? why would anyone have issues with india again?

　　真的？为什么大家与印度总有矛盾？

　　[–]314r8 3 points 2 hours ago

　　and what about taiwan, japan, korea, phillipines etc? how come china has issues with all of them? (i can see the historic issue with japan, but what about the others?)

　　今天已经证实j-10b装备了中国国产的相控阵雷达，显然大陆计画把这个先进的电子产品先在j-10b做实验。

　　对于台湾，日本，韩国，菲律宾怎么样？中国怎么和它们都有矛盾？（我知道日本是因为历史原因，但是其他呢？）

　　中国可能不喜欢他的民主邻居们？或者说问题在中国。

　　[–]ofisnothavedamnit 3 points 53 minutes ago

　　issues with taiwan are no surprise really. the guy who mao drove out to make modern china retreated to taiwan and the rest of the world defended him there. not only that, but prc wasn't recognized as a country for a long period of time by us and europe and instead the government in taiwan was recognized as a the chinese government. there is a lot of history to chinese relations with its neighbors and it is definitely not an issue of china just blindly hating democracies. after all, pakistan is technically a democracy and borders china and they seem to have pretty amicable relations.

　　by the way, i am not taking sides on any of those conflicts. they were all pretty complicated.

　　和台湾有矛盾真的一点都不令人惊讶。被毛泽东逐出的那帮人让近代中国撤退到台湾，世界上其他的国家都帮他们保卫台湾。不仅如此，中华人民共和国很长时间都不被美国和欧洲承认，作为代替，台湾政府被认为是中国政府。这里有很多关于中国和他邻居矛盾关系的历史，而不是中国只是盲目的恨民主。毕竟，巴基斯坦也是一个民主国家，而且还跟中国接壤，他们看起来非常友好。顺便说一下，我并没有偏袒任何一方，他们之间太复杂了。

　　[–]314r8 1 point 20 minutes ago

　　pakistan's only china border is via pakistan occupied kashmir. but yes, china has good relations with one of its neighbors - pakistan. yippee

　　巴基斯坦和中国唯一的边界是被巴基斯坦占领的克什米尔。能确定的是，中国和巴基斯坦有很好的关系。欢呼！

　　c评论：

　　[–]timoleon 5 points 3 days ago

　　i'd be more concerned with the price pakistan will have to pay for such diplomatic niceties. more territorial concessions perhaps?

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　　我更关心巴基斯坦为此付出的代价。领土的让步？

　　[–]spoonybard326 19 points 3 days ago

　　i'm guessing the price they paid has something to do with pictures of helicopter wreckage.

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　　不过中国大陆航空发动机的重点目标应该是「太行」，目前处于试量产与少量装备情况。近来「太行」发动机出现在越来越多的国产战机j-11b上，甚至是特别强调将安装在未来的舰载机j-15上，「太行」发动机的可靠性将一步步获得提升。

　　我猜他们付出的代价跟那架直升机碎片的照片有关（译者注：美军打死拉丹掉的那架改装的黑鹰直升机）

　　[–]nibblerslitterbox 11 points 3 days ago

　　pictures, pieces, whole parts. bingo.

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　　照片，残片，整个部分，你说中了

　　[–]druuseph 8 points 3 days ago

　　to be honest the helicopter is not really that important. the modifications to it were simply noise reducing, it's unlikely there was any kind of radar shielding besides a smoothed nose. it was more than likely nothing more than a navy version of a black hawk with the tail replaced, it's not some super futuristic death-copter and as shown the modifications weren't exactly the best considering the damn thing lost balance when it went to hover. i know a few engineers who work for sikorsky and when they were looking at that tail they nearly fell out of their chair wondering who though that was a good idea. a fifth blade and a covering on the middle completely changes the stabilizing capacity, it's not optimal for that body. if they really wanted a 'stealth' helicopter they should have looked into creating something similar to the comanche which has a covered fan that provides more torque while reducing noise.

　　now what they might want is the avionics that may have survived the explosion, that is true, but the 'stealth' tech is not nearly as high tech or incredible as it's being made out to be.

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　　这是解放军重量级将领当时在国营电台发表的谈话自然引起重视，中国的第四代战机立刻引起热烈讨论，亚太的势力平衡将被彻底打破云云，英国的[简氏防务周刊]根据现在的j-20模型甚至推测中国的新一代战机隐身性能和打击火力性能有可能局部超越美国的f-22和俄国的su-35、t-50。

　　诚实来讲，直升机还不值那么多钱。改装的直升机只是简单的减少了噪音。不可能有雷达干扰设备除开光滑的机头。跟海军的黑鹰直升机差别不大，只是尾翼被取代了。这并不是超级未来的牛逼直升机，只是简单的修改而且还没有考虑到特殊情况以至于盘旋的时候失去了平衡。我认识一些为sikorsky公司工作的工程师，当他们看到这个尾巴时，他们几乎离开了椅子想知道谁想的馊主意。第五个直升机的叶片和在中间的覆盖物彻底改变了直升机的稳定性，这并不是最佳的改造对于这款直升机来说。如果他们真的想要隐形直升机，他们应该创造一个类似于科曼奇能够覆盖住螺旋桨并能提供更大的扭矩而且能缩减噪音。

　　他们想要的只可能是在爆炸中幸免于难的航空电子设备，这是对的，但是隐形技术远非被制造成的那么高科技或者那么不可置信的。

　　我甚至怀疑他们能够得到航空电子设备，因为就我所看的消息，他们花了很多时间去破坏直升机，甚至超过他们寻找目标（这里的他们是指美国海军陆战队）

　　[–]recycle_bin 1 point 3 days ago

　　the skin likely had the latest stealthy paint in the us arsenal since this was a very new and still classified helicopter. paint chips are probably the most important piece of the helicopter to china since it could advance their stealth program and perhaps lead to developing countermeasures to detect us stealth planes. the stealthy shape of the helicopter could be recreated in house in little time, but the r&d behind the paint could bring their stealth forward a decade or more from where they are today.

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巴基斯坦空军的“枭龙”战斗机

　　表皮像是在美国军工里最新的隐性涂料，因为这是一个非常新，仍旧机密的直升机。对中国来说，隐形涂料的碎片是最重要的，因为这可以促进他们的隐形项目，可能发展对策来侦察美国的隐形飞机。直升机的形状可以在房子里用很少的时间来重新制造，但是涂料后面的r&d能够让他们的隐形技术提升十年或者更多。

　　[–]p3on 0 points 2 days ago

　　i can literally guarantee that the helicopters did not have stealth paint. they flew into pakistan literally under the radar. they were entirely undetectable by radar to begin with.permalinkparent

　　我担保直升机并没有涂隐形涂料，他们在雷达下飞进了巴基斯坦，从一开始他们就不会被雷达发现。

　　[–]p3on 0 points 2 days ago

　　radar literally does not detect anything below about 2-300 feet, even in flat terrain (which abottabad is not)

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　　雷达并不能侦察在200-300米下的低空，甚至在平坦的地形。

　　d,评论

　　haphapablap 11 points 3 days ago

　　(china gives pakistan 50 fighter jets). what a dishonest title. from the article "china and pakistan have jointly produced the jf-17 aircraft" jointly producing is not one side giving something to another.

巴基斯坦空军的“枭龙”战斗机

　　这标题太假了，从“中国和巴基斯坦联合生产枭龙战机”的标题，联合生产的意思不是一方给一方。

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　　[–]vnotforvendetta 5 points 3 days ago

　　it is when china is paying for/manufacturing these particular 50 fighters

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　　这是中国额外为这40架飞机支付的。

　　[–]n99bjedi 13 points 3 days ago

　　pakistan didn't paid for it, china paid for them. and they are under pak control... so yes, that would conclude to the title "china gives pak 50 fighter jets". china's technology is far superior than pak (if that even exists on a global level).

　　this can be easily explained by this analogy -

　　tom and dick jointly made cookies. tom bought the dough, the sugar, the syrup, the chips the bowls, template cutters etc. he then also brought his mommas secret recipe that is known to only his family, to his backyard. only a few other people in this world can make those special cookies like his mothers favorite cookies. dick on the other hand, came. tom then went ahead and followed the recipe. tom and dick both 'made' cookies, and then tom gave them to dick to take them home.

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　　巴基斯坦并不付钱，付钱的是中国。他们在巴基斯坦的控制下。所以标题应该是“中国给巴基斯坦40架飞机”。中国的技术远超巴基斯坦。

　　(以上文章为中国战略论坛网友所传，不代表本站赞同其观点或证实其消息，仅供有相同兴趣的网友做参考之用，请慎重判断文章内容的真实性与准确性。)